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	<title>Comments on: Chief Seattle</title>
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	<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/</link>
	<description>Rowing towards a greener future</description>
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		<title>By: oldboyscout (Oregon, USA)</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10635</link>
		<dc:creator>oldboyscout (Oregon, USA)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10635</guid>
		<description>Well said, all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, all.</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10519</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10519</guid>
		<description>wow ... what wonderful comments from all you guys ... just skimmed them, but will come back later tonight to read them all.  GREAT discussions here!

Naomi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow &#8230; what wonderful comments from all you guys &#8230; just skimmed them, but will come back later tonight to read them all.  GREAT discussions here!</p>
<p>Naomi</p>
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		<title>By: Roz Savage</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10459</link>
		<dc:creator>Roz Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10459</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your kind words, Richard. And yes, you understand those arrows perfectly. But there is not much point making contingency plans at this stage. If I had unlimited amounts of time, money and resources, then in a perfect world I&#039;d have contingency plans for PNG, Thursday Island, and Australia-non-Cairns.

But there are so many possibilities at this stage. Who knows, I might even not make it past the Solomons. So any effort expended on lining up contingency plans would very likely be wasted. Last year Nicole put a lot of effort into making plans for Tuvalu, which was all wasted when I had to divert to Kiribati. And things fell into place remarkably quickly for my new destination.

I have my passport, and I have friends. Which is all I had when I was trying to get home from Copenhagen and the Eurostar train was cancelled. And it all turned out okay, thanks to my amazing supporters. So without wanting to seem irresponsible, my feeling is that it makes more sense to wait and see what happens, and to have faith that we&#039;ll manage to figure something out once we see what is most likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your kind words, Richard. And yes, you understand those arrows perfectly. But there is not much point making contingency plans at this stage. If I had unlimited amounts of time, money and resources, then in a perfect world I&#8217;d have contingency plans for PNG, Thursday Island, and Australia-non-Cairns.</p>
<p>But there are so many possibilities at this stage. Who knows, I might even not make it past the Solomons. So any effort expended on lining up contingency plans would very likely be wasted. Last year Nicole put a lot of effort into making plans for Tuvalu, which was all wasted when I had to divert to Kiribati. And things fell into place remarkably quickly for my new destination.</p>
<p>I have my passport, and I have friends. Which is all I had when I was trying to get home from Copenhagen and the Eurostar train was cancelled. And it all turned out okay, thanks to my amazing supporters. So without wanting to seem irresponsible, my feeling is that it makes more sense to wait and see what happens, and to have faith that we&#8217;ll manage to figure something out once we see what is most likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10446</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10446</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m inclined to quibble about this and that, but I&#039;ll leave it there.  Said enough! Bowing out.  Good work to all of you. Indeed looking forward to Roz&#039;s next stage.  Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m inclined to quibble about this and that, but I&#8217;ll leave it there.  Said enough! Bowing out.  Good work to all of you. Indeed looking forward to Roz&#8217;s next stage.  Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Richard in Austin</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10442</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard in Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10442</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with Doug (and Steve) on Roz&#039;s value to this entire endeavor.  In an era where so many people have become only &quot;commenters&quot;, endlessly hiding behind their computer screens and commenting on what others are doing (and I&#039;m certainly guilty of this, at times), Roz is one of the very limited number of people who are actually out there &quot;doing things&quot;.  And the credibility she brings to the environmental movement, with a first-hand analysis of things she has seen and done, is of great value toward developing concrete action-plans for the future.  I&#039;m very much looking forward to the next stage of the row, with Roz&#039;s commentary on what she encounters, although that map with all the wind vectors made me start thinking.  Do we need to make some contingency plans for other possible landfalls besides Oz?  Or did I not understand all those arrows?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with Doug (and Steve) on Roz&#8217;s value to this entire endeavor.  In an era where so many people have become only &#8220;commenters&#8221;, endlessly hiding behind their computer screens and commenting on what others are doing (and I&#8217;m certainly guilty of this, at times), Roz is one of the very limited number of people who are actually out there &#8220;doing things&#8221;.  And the credibility she brings to the environmental movement, with a first-hand analysis of things she has seen and done, is of great value toward developing concrete action-plans for the future.  I&#8217;m very much looking forward to the next stage of the row, with Roz&#8217;s commentary on what she encounters, although that map with all the wind vectors made me start thinking.  Do we need to make some contingency plans for other possible landfalls besides Oz?  Or did I not understand all those arrows?</p>
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		<title>By: UncaDoug</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10441</link>
		<dc:creator>UncaDoug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10441</guid>
		<description>Welcome back Richard. Missed you too ... good piece. Reading through these posts, I am reminded that Roz&#039;s goal is to raise awareness &quot;about the relationship that humans have with the Earth&quot; using her words, including &quot;plastic pollution, climate change and habitat destruction&quot; as explained in her video http://j.mp/RozEcoUpdate 

My feeling is that we Rozlings find inspiration and motivation in what Roz has to say -- in our heart and in our gut -- and we don&#039;t need her every word to be vetted scientifically.  Like Steve said, she is there ... she has credibility by being there on the churning ocean touching the docile whale shark and the colorful wise turtle, in the Pacific gyre seeing the myriad bits of plastic, and in Tarawa understanding the vulnerability of their water supply (like her own vulnerability to a failed water maker).

Incidentally, Friday I met 22 bright energetic 13-year-olds who are engaged in GAIA (Global Awareness, Investigation and Action) elective activity at the International School of Monterey. These young students don&#039;t need much inspiration, but they love Roz ... I showed them Roz&#039;s Eco-Adventurer video.  During the discussion that followed, they identified plastic grocery bags as an issue they are concerned about. They are ready to go visit their mayor to find out what the city is doing to combat global warming, and to ask the city to ban plastic grocery bags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back Richard. Missed you too &#8230; good piece. Reading through these posts, I am reminded that Roz&#8217;s goal is to raise awareness &#8220;about the relationship that humans have with the Earth&#8221; using her words, including &#8220;plastic pollution, climate change and habitat destruction&#8221; as explained in her video <a href="http://j.mp/RozEcoUpdate" rel="nofollow">http://j.mp/RozEcoUpdate</a> </p>
<p>My feeling is that we Rozlings find inspiration and motivation in what Roz has to say &#8212; in our heart and in our gut &#8212; and we don&#8217;t need her every word to be vetted scientifically.  Like Steve said, she is there &#8230; she has credibility by being there on the churning ocean touching the docile whale shark and the colorful wise turtle, in the Pacific gyre seeing the myriad bits of plastic, and in Tarawa understanding the vulnerability of their water supply (like her own vulnerability to a failed water maker).</p>
<p>Incidentally, Friday I met 22 bright energetic 13-year-olds who are engaged in GAIA (Global Awareness, Investigation and Action) elective activity at the International School of Monterey. These young students don&#8217;t need much inspiration, but they love Roz &#8230; I showed them Roz&#8217;s Eco-Adventurer video.  During the discussion that followed, they identified plastic grocery bags as an issue they are concerned about. They are ready to go visit their mayor to find out what the city is doing to combat global warming, and to ask the city to ban plastic grocery bags.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard in Austin</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10436</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard in Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10436</guid>
		<description>Steve:  I’m not disagreeing with you that science is important.  But it is my honest feeling that “both” approaches (scientific, and intuitive as you call it) are valuable.  Yes, the intuitive approach is often wrong, but so is the scientific.  Today’s science and medicine, when viewed in a hundred or two hundred years from now, with be considered profoundly limited and even medieval.  But that’s the nature of the game, since they are based on incremental progress.  What the intuitive approach offers are “leaps” in understanding, that might otherwise have taken eons to accomplish.  And what bothers me occasionally about the scientific approach is “the hubris” of people involved.  I am profoundly skeptical of people who spend an inordinate amount of time telling me how brilliant they are, and I developed this skepticism during my undergraduate years at the university studying economics, while hearing world-class economists tell me how only “they” really understood the nature of economic reality.  I now understand that this affliction is present in almost all disciplines, with professionals sometimes spending about 50% of their time on their specialty, and the other 50% on marketing their product and updating their resume.  I’m not at all saying that there are not brilliant scientists out there, but I am saying that the more time I see someone bashing the opinions of others, the more skeptical I become about their own standing.  And the more “inclusive” I see someone become, willing to listen to and explore all possible avenues of progress and understanding (whether in science, or the spiritual), the more I feel this person might actually be on a better path toward progress for mankind.  But these are just my personal feelings, and I’m respectful of those who feel other things.  The historical battle between science and the intuitive approaches has been ongoing for millennia, and rather than pick sides, I prefer to view “both” as possessing the ability to contribute to human progress.  I agree with you that the environmental movement would profit from more provable science on their side, but I also feel that it might not be the best “strategy” for the world to simply wait another three or four hundred years for this scientific evidence to be determined.  Or as George Patton once said:  “A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.”

Doug:  Welcome back, we’ve missed you.  Well actually, I didn’t miss you that much because I was in Mexico City during the last couple weeks (surprising blue skies, wonderful food).   :)  And I know what you mean about the shock of coming back to the real world, and work.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:  I’m not disagreeing with you that science is important.  But it is my honest feeling that “both” approaches (scientific, and intuitive as you call it) are valuable.  Yes, the intuitive approach is often wrong, but so is the scientific.  Today’s science and medicine, when viewed in a hundred or two hundred years from now, with be considered profoundly limited and even medieval.  But that’s the nature of the game, since they are based on incremental progress.  What the intuitive approach offers are “leaps” in understanding, that might otherwise have taken eons to accomplish.  And what bothers me occasionally about the scientific approach is “the hubris” of people involved.  I am profoundly skeptical of people who spend an inordinate amount of time telling me how brilliant they are, and I developed this skepticism during my undergraduate years at the university studying economics, while hearing world-class economists tell me how only “they” really understood the nature of economic reality.  I now understand that this affliction is present in almost all disciplines, with professionals sometimes spending about 50% of their time on their specialty, and the other 50% on marketing their product and updating their resume.  I’m not at all saying that there are not brilliant scientists out there, but I am saying that the more time I see someone bashing the opinions of others, the more skeptical I become about their own standing.  And the more “inclusive” I see someone become, willing to listen to and explore all possible avenues of progress and understanding (whether in science, or the spiritual), the more I feel this person might actually be on a better path toward progress for mankind.  But these are just my personal feelings, and I’m respectful of those who feel other things.  The historical battle between science and the intuitive approaches has been ongoing for millennia, and rather than pick sides, I prefer to view “both” as possessing the ability to contribute to human progress.  I agree with you that the environmental movement would profit from more provable science on their side, but I also feel that it might not be the best “strategy” for the world to simply wait another three or four hundred years for this scientific evidence to be determined.  Or as George Patton once said:  “A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.”</p>
<p>Doug:  Welcome back, we’ve missed you.  Well actually, I didn’t miss you that much because I was in Mexico City during the last couple weeks (surprising blue skies, wonderful food).   <img src='http://rozsavage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   And I know what you mean about the shock of coming back to the real world, and work.  <img src='http://rozsavage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: UncaDoug</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10433</link>
		<dc:creator>UncaDoug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10433</guid>
		<description>Glad we are on the same page supporting Roz ...
I undoubtedly misinterpreted something said earlier.
Thanks for your clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad we are on the same page supporting Roz &#8230;<br />
I undoubtedly misinterpreted something said earlier.<br />
Thanks for your clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10429</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10429</guid>
		<description>UncaDoug, My purpose is to NOT hi-jack Roz&#039;s site, though she is probably thinking that about now!  My purpose is to only point out what I believe to be factual-based errors in statements.  The environmental movement will have less impact if it is perceived to be based on poor science--the current fiasco amongst the climatologists in Great Britain who were found to have falsified/ommited data in support of global warming may have done incalculable harm in public perception.   

However, Roz&#039;s experientially based oceanic adventure is also exactly what we need--intelligent  people out in the world reporting on what they see.  Those of us desk-bound (and rowing machine-bound!) folks have to see the world as they report it.  Watching her getting washed over the side of her boat and struggling back in doesn&#039;t get any more real.  She has &quot;street cred.&quot; 

When she reports trash in a huge ocean it may be anecdotal but it has a huge impact, at least on me. When she says Tarawa will be one of the first islands to be covered in the event of a rising ocean, we listen--she was there!  As long as she has credibility she will have more influence than 100 scientific papers alone. If she and others lose their credibility then their impact is minimized.  But they have to, in my opinion, stick to &quot;facts,&quot; and their own observations....both of which are very difficult to come by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UncaDoug, My purpose is to NOT hi-jack Roz&#8217;s site, though she is probably thinking that about now!  My purpose is to only point out what I believe to be factual-based errors in statements.  The environmental movement will have less impact if it is perceived to be based on poor science&#8211;the current fiasco amongst the climatologists in Great Britain who were found to have falsified/ommited data in support of global warming may have done incalculable harm in public perception.   </p>
<p>However, Roz&#8217;s experientially based oceanic adventure is also exactly what we need&#8211;intelligent  people out in the world reporting on what they see.  Those of us desk-bound (and rowing machine-bound!) folks have to see the world as they report it.  Watching her getting washed over the side of her boat and struggling back in doesn&#8217;t get any more real.  She has &#8220;street cred.&#8221; </p>
<p>When she reports trash in a huge ocean it may be anecdotal but it has a huge impact, at least on me. When she says Tarawa will be one of the first islands to be covered in the event of a rising ocean, we listen&#8211;she was there!  As long as she has credibility she will have more influence than 100 scientific papers alone. If she and others lose their credibility then their impact is minimized.  But they have to, in my opinion, stick to &#8220;facts,&#8221; and their own observations&#8230;.both of which are very difficult to come by.</p>
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		<title>By: UncaDoug</title>
		<link>http://rozsavage.com/2010/02/16/chief-seattle/comment-page-1/#comment-10411</link>
		<dc:creator>UncaDoug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rozsavage.com/?p=2081#comment-10411</guid>
		<description>Steve, you seem to be very intelligent, at least highly educated or well-read. What is your purpose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you seem to be very intelligent, at least highly educated or well-read. What is your purpose?</p>
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